Speaker 1 — 0:03
Okay, continue. So no the obligation your property when you sell it, it's really no one else's concern or business. Well, some of the things you might have heard is like a solar lease or solar obligation that the buyer would have to take over. These liens have to be paid off.
Sydney Bocik — 0:25
So I felt like, I've, I don't know, just Realtors I talked to in the past who made comments like, you don't have a second mortgage or anything. Dude, you don't have like, a blah blah, and then, like, they'll say, like, good. When I say no, it simplifies it,
Speaker 1 — 0:45
no, what they're referring to is like a second lien on the property. That's not necessarily second mortgage. So again, the example is like a solar solar lease. It's an obligation on title that is generally passed on to the buyer as an obligation and or you have to pay it off. What they mean is, is there an obligation that will complicate from the buy side of the true cost your mortgage? It's, it's, is your responsibility?
Speaker 2 — 1:14
Got it? Okay, that makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1 — 1:18
Okay, so it's more like a mechanics lien. So, like, if you had a roof or something like that, that's really what they're they're trying to say the price and the cost to the buyer isn't the same as we expect. Or is there going to be hidden, hidden conversation your first and second mortgages?
Sydney Bocik — 1:40
Okay? So if, if we're thinking about this from a Perlin perspective, would we where we talked about purchase and refinance, but where does this like key lock come into play? Then, because
Speaker 1 — 1:56
it's a refinance, it's basically one of the five reasons why people refinance would be to harvest equity is one of them, and the HELOC is, is that. So instead of refinancing, the first harvesting equity is a loan product, so it'd be under that same conversation of purposes. So again, lowering rate. This right to to create equitable so, to harvest equity, to take out cash. There are sometimes a variable rate to fix rate. So if we did the 10 year fix and it's currently adjusted, that's another reason, lower lower the term. So from a 30 year fix to a 15 year fix, or change the term or 15 year fix generally do 30 years to save money, but to lower the term. It's another reason for someone that's for they need to get out of debt and to lower their cost, and then the reverse mortgage is to actually to eliminate their monthly obligation, and harvest equity, is a combination of a couple of those things. So those are the reasons people would refinance their mortgages. Yeah, okay refinance for our conversations, to be able to provide that as a lead or a financial tool to solve a problem, to harvest equity, the answer would be yes. Is it a refinance? Technically, no, because we're not touching the first
Sydney Bocik — 3:46
for like a me. Scenario, we could take this information and hand it to like a figure.
Speaker 1 — 3:55
Yes, the figure could facilitate this. Or a company that originates loans for figure, because figure now it's they're distributing through other wholesalers.
Speaker 1 — 4:17
Okay, so in this scenario, what we would like to do Sydney is kind of actually do the analysis like, All right, we're going to keep states, we're going to keep Tampa, we're going to pull out some cash, and this is going to be the cost and what the access to the cash would be. So there's a number right now, what you do with it? Second scenario, right? The second scenario is like, we're going to buy a property, we have this amount of cash, and now you move so we have this amount of rent cash flow, and then what can we afford? One we'll show you what you qualify for. But then, based upon what you told me, what our requirements on. On affordability, then we'll actually try to give you that visibility, right. $1,500 is the maximum you probably should get for your payment because utilities and other cost factors about $2,000 and that's kind of where we want to get you for cash flow, right? However, in the scenario, if I remember correctly, you probably want to, like, 22 to $2,300 if you needed to, as far as utilities, Mortgage Association, okay, so we'll go with that scenario two right. And then scenario three would be, well, scenario two would just cash out and tell you what the difference from a line of credit? What's the difference from line of credit than a loan? Right if? Well, let's actually that's what we should do. So scenario one is taking a cash out if you're going to purchase something right away, we may want to look at a loan versus a line of credit. If there's a difference in interest rate or not, what a loan is is that your interest rate will be fixed. I know that's gonna be important for you to make sure that you would budget. Okay, the important doing a loan is that you're taking all the cash at once, and the reasons why you would do that is because you're going to use the cash, in this case, a down payment. So loan, second loan would be a reference of regression, going to buy something, use it
Sydney Bocik — 6:28
well, we said that I probably the other one doesn't fit my like cash flow needs or requirements, so we probably wouldn't buy anything right away.
Speaker 1 — 6:40
Again, my options is to help you understand the scenarios you gave me. And so the loan sounds like it may be something we need to go explore if you're going to buy right? So I want that to a fixed rate, dollar amount, keep the budget a line of credit if we don't have something we're targeting to buy now, then we want to take the access to the equity when you're still occupying the property, and then you have the carrying cost of only what you cost and cover so the three to $5,000 to pay interest on that, and I can figure out the payment that's would be a new obligation that you could pay off at any time. You can create a zero balance, but you can pull out cash so that if the property is going to cost you money, or if your tenants do something, then you can have the property pay for itself. And that's what the line benefit is, okay. So that's that. And then if we were going to say all right now we have this line, we have this net dollars amount. Call it 114, government to do something. Then how much could you qualify for, based on HOAs and assume utilities like, what could you really qualify for, for payments? In this case, let's call it to 292 8290, and that should give you this number for these assumptions. And then when you find the real property, we're going to say, okay, association is different. Taxes may be the same, the insurance may be the same, but we have parking, so the cost that we assume for parking, we may have a little more comfort on being flexible there, but we'll have a framework for the purchase. And then when you were shopping, try to stay within that framework. Or if you super, super love it, then we could go back and try to figure out, can we do this? And say, if we have that second bedroom now, and we bought a home for 310 versus the 290 but has the second bedroom, and then you can rent it out for $700 then actually it's a cash flow might be even cheaper than what if you bought the single property you just have to decide that the tenant is part of the cost of that beautiful, beautiful property, Right? And kids, and then we've talked about your lifestyle, that you may want to move and travel a little bit, having the multiple bedrooms and multiple bathrooms, you may say, okay, great. It would be dangerous if I had one person, but if that two people, I wouldn't know that I could always cover one part of my obligation. But if I had two people, would be no brainer, and they could travel and, you know, build more real estate as an option, like you did in Tampa. So those are considerations that we may want to actually say, okay, David, one unit, this number, but if I have two bedrooms or two units, I can actually go much higher. Didn't want tenants, but really like that property. And now I just give you the options that you could do it, and that's all I'm here for. I'm just here to make sure that we walk through the process of what you can do and what you told me is important I remind you. But what about this? What about that? If you're cool with that, and we'll make sure that you at least have all the information. Okay? Okay? And then, then we have the departing residents. We have to talk about some of the concerns or risk of not being a non occupying landlord, right? Who's going to collect the checks? Who's going to fix the toilets? What's that number? So we should break that down as far as the math side of it, right? You live in Tampa.
Sydney Bocik — 10:22
I have a property manager that I'm considering
Speaker 1 — 10:26
perfect, and so that's, again, part of the math that you want to share with me so that we can make sure that the cash flow works good based on what you told me is good is. And then let's talk about insurance and different insurances and floods, because we want to look at all the what if scenarios, right? So Florida, the main said, the most concern for me, for you, is kind of that that wipe out experience, what happens to the hurricanes? They'll miss you this time. What happens to you? And that's why they're taking the money out of the property, to me, is something for your serious consideration, that you've been lucky and you're lucky girls, hopefully it never, never runs out. But what if? That's what we want to cover the what if scenarios. Yeah, Okay, so what else? So when we circle back on the conversations. Let me know how you want me to present the numbers, or how you understand the options and how you would want me to move forward with you. Would you
Speaker 1 — 11:36
like us to get you pre qualified for the line of credit so we know how much access the equity you have and what the cost is?
Sydney Bocik — 11:45
Well, I'm thinking of moving out of my house maybe in the next two months. So based on that timeline, how does that change?
Speaker 1 — 11:52
Things? Really starts considering it now, because it could take 30 to 45 days, and we want to make sure that, again, on the line of credit, on the application, is important, that you are honest, as you always are, with the application, and so they the occupancy does not ask you after you move. It's effectively when you when you are in the home, okay, there are other mortgages, like first mortgage. So if we bought a home in Denver, for example, and you told me that you're intending to occupy there is an intention that you will live that that home for a minimum of six months, like it's literally in the agreement that is your intentions to live there. It might be 12 months. We will clarify that. But the line of credit, I don't believe that there's that language, so I just want to make sure we disclose that to you, so that you don't sign anything that you're uncomfortable with or phrase that untrue. Okay, so we'll go we have your information. Is this all right? This is so good and so current, blah, blah, blah. We validated, right? We serve permission to rerun your credit to make sure we get you that go through the process. Yep. Credit still amazing, wonderful, isn't it? Congratulations. Looks like you paid off your car. That's wonderful. You're doing great. You did great. Okay, wonderful. So what we could do is, here's the new checklist of what we need to get you the approval process, pesos, basically, blah, blah. Well, you've done this before. Here it is. Thank you so much for the information. You're so prepared as always, great. We'll go ahead and get this submitted to you, and so call it 72 hours. We should be able to get you and actually confirm everything with the valuation of the home, the what you have. And then from there, we'll go through the process. This property will need an appraisal from this type of loan process. So we'll walk through the well, we'll need to do the next couple weeks like we've done before. Okay, okay,
Speaker 2 — 14:03
anything else we could do? No, this is helpful. Okay.
Speaker 1 — 14:09
Again, I'm here 24 hours a day, so you just type in over anything you need.
Sydney Bocik — 14:17
So you'll notify me the next time I need to do something. Now that I have profile.
Speaker 1 — 14:23
Yeah, so again, in this scenario, you will you've already applied for a line of credit. And so what we're doing, we're going to move forward with while the team member, I should reach out to you to making sure that they follow up on what you need and set up the appointment for the appraisal. We'll get that scheduled, and then if you didn't want to get pre approved for a purchase, we will go ahead and start that process after you complete your line of credit. Again. This is just for educational purposes, right?
Sydney Bocik — 14:56
So if we did move forward with the i. Who's going to reach out to me about the HELOC,
Speaker 1 — 15:07
yeah, so we referred you to figure and you're going to talk to the gym, and Jim's going to take care of the process for you, but we are your mortgage concierge for you. So again, if you have any questions, we can facilitate all the checklists and information, but we'll have a human well, those human people talk to you,
Sydney Bocik — 15:29
so I upload everything into one user
Unknown Speaker — 15:32
experience should be here, yeah, go.
Sydney Bocik — 15:35
It'll go to them, and then everything from them will come back to me, into here. Yeah, we should
Speaker 1 — 15:40
have one centralized place for all your data and your documents and all our conversations. Should be here, okay, so that if Jim wants to communicate to you, we should have that same thread in the same process. Again, he's a human so, you know, he may make some mistakes, but we'll be here for you. And so we should have one digital experience
Sydney Bocik — 16:02
so you can help me understand everything that Jim sends back.
Speaker 1 — 16:06
Yeah, if there's any questions that you feel more comfortable talking to me on Sunday night at 11 o'clock when you're watching the new girl, absolutely we'll be here for you.
Sydney Bocik — 16:16
Okay, should I be freaked out that you knew that was my favorite show.
Unknown Speaker — 16:23
Don't be freaked out. Just know we know you. Sydney,
Unknown Speaker — 16:32
okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 — 16:37
So here's the contact information for Jim and his team, team member, Tanya, right? And they might get emails from them their old school, they actually have emails so that how to figure that out. That might be nice to have a unified communication through this. No so. But what we'll probably do is that you'll get emails directly from them as well, because that's how they communicate, but we watch that would be here, so making sure that we could answer your questions. If you have any questions about terms or terminologies or timeframes,
Sydney Bocik — 17:19
lady, she's so cute, she's so tired later. That makes sense. I don't have any other questions, so it makes so I need so it makes most sense right now just to open the HELOC and maybe move out of my house. You think that's that makes the most sense. I like the emotional validation.
Speaker 1 — 17:49
Yeah, I think getting aligning her to have access to your equity so you have lots of flexibility is the way moving forward. The only way where it doesn't make sense. If you're going to sell a home, call it a short term, because there's cost, right?
Sydney Bocik — 18:03
If I Okay, wait, sorry, let's, let's ask that question again. Because if I convert it to a rental only an investment property, there's I pay capital gains on it after three years, if I sell it after three years. So would the HELOC still make sense after three if I'm if I maybe only keep it for three years,
Speaker 1 — 18:31
so the day. So what you do with the HELOC? So the HELOC is a few things. Let me repeat what I think I hear from you, why we're doing the HELOC Okay? One, you're going to get access to the equity. So if you need to do something like buy buy another property, you can do that. That's one. Two, if there's any cost or damages to your property, the property starts paying for itself versus cash flow. Three, if there's any major national disasters that could jeopardize your equity, you could separate the equity from the property. So those are the three reasons why getting the line of credit is is why we're considering today. Now, if you sell the home in three years, capital gains in the line of credit are two different parts of the conversation, because they're separate, because when you sell your property, you pay off all the obligations on the property, whether there's gains or not, whether it's a occupied property or rental property, what you're talking about is living in the home for two out of Five years. This is why you're talking about departing residence of three years, where you could use your primary residence deduction, and I have capital gains. That's what I think you're referring to, two different things in the line of credit. It's just you pay off the debt so it doesn't affect your gains.
Sydney Bocik — 19:58
No idea what yours. Saying at this point, I've I've been told that if I I'm not following, I have been told that if I move out of my house and it's now just primarily an investment property, but then I go to sell it after three years of converting it, then I will pay capital gains tax on it at that point. And then I remember the conversation we had previously about a mortgage and loans and everything that that that the cost of the capital. Maybe it doesn't make sense to open a HELOC if I'm gonna sell it in the three years? Yeah.
Speaker 1 — 20:43
Okay, so it's a pay it's a payback period for the cost that. So one part of the conversation is payback for the new loan, and then the second part is capital gains, because you're going to sell the home potentially in three years
Sydney Bocik — 20:57
back even, really, I'm not taking out the HELOC to cut my cost. So it's payback, really even a part of the conversation
Speaker 1 — 21:04
Yeah, so if it costs you three to $5,000 and it's just an insurance policy, so again, it's not a payback period in that sense, but if you never use it for those three reasons, but we don't know if you need the insurance. We don't know if you need access to buy something. We don't know if the property has a roof or needs a repair, so it's an assurance you have it available, so you sell it in three years or not. The same types of consideration could you want taxes? It's not the line of credit gives you access to the equity to make sure that the property pays for itself, or you can buy something else. That's why we're doing a lot of credit. I understand. So it has nothing to do with capital gains. It just says that you have a three year period that you might sell the property.
Sydney Bocik — 21:52
In my mind, it does. I'm confused. How does it not
Speaker 1 — 21:57
so your timeframe of potentially using the line of credits three years in that example,
Sydney Bocik — 22:02
is it is it true or not? Okay, let's see when one thing first is it true or not? True that if I move out of the house, and it's an investment property only, and it's not owner occupied, that after three years, I will have to pay if I sell it, after three years, I will have to pay capital gain tax, no matter what I walk,
Unknown Speaker — 22:21
if it has nothing to do with the wine and credit,
Sydney Bocik — 22:27
it's a real scenario. I'm just asking you're a mortgage professional. I'm I'm a real person,
Unknown Speaker — 22:34
and I answer your question,
Sydney Bocik — 22:37
scenario, whether they have anything to do with each other or not.
Unknown Speaker — 22:41
Yes question,
Sydney Bocik — 22:45
I said yes, asking it in the right way, but then that's
Speaker 1 — 22:49
okay, perfect. So what I heard from you, Sydney is that decided
Sydney Bocik — 22:54
whether like, connect there are connected or not. Like, it's just the scenario.
Speaker 1 — 23:00
Yes, let me, let me re Let me answer your question. I'm sorry I was not clear. You're correct, if you are a primary residence now for the last two years, right? And then you want to rent the property, call it for the next three years, if you, if you decide to sell the property within that three years that it becomes a rental, you could avoid capital gains. If you sell the property after three years, then you will be you have to pay capital gains if you sell the property in the scenario that you did not reestablish a primary residence or did not do an exchange. But the answer is, if you sell the property after three years that you carry the tenant as a rental, you would you would be responsible for capital gains. That would be the general gist.
Sydney Bocik — 23:53
Okay, how come we didn't go over that before,
Speaker 1 — 23:57
as far as the line of credit, because we didn't talk about the So, because that's tax advice, and I could go over that the way we were talking about cash flow and harvest and everything you do with it. So let's go
Sydney Bocik — 24:16
over that over then that would be a big consideration, right? Because if I, if I move out, and then I move back into the property for any period of time, then that consideration goes away, right? It restarts the clock,
Speaker 1 — 24:33
no, so yes and no, not for any period of time. So you avoid capital gains on a primary residence. You need to establish primary residence for two years. If you do so, then you could have no capital gains for a single woman or a single person, excuse me, for $250,000 per person. If you're a married couple, it'd be up to $500,000 okay, now if you have to move before two years that you re establish your occupancy, then it'd be prorated, okay, so in this example, so does that me? Will stop there that that makes
Sydney Bocik — 25:13
sense, yeah, but I'm after the two year mark, right?
Speaker 1 — 25:18
So you said, reestablish so. So if you, if you sell the proper phrase out, if you rent the property in 2026, okay, you could rent it for three years and sell it as a primary residence. Is tax purposes to avoid capital gains. Now, if, after three years, like, literally the day after, meaning it's not, it's like, literally three years in a day, then you'll be paying capital gains for that, if you did not reestablish a primary residency, or if you then do an exchange, or other ways to redefine that capital gain. Does that make sense also of a real scenario
Unknown Speaker — 26:09
or waste? No wait. Time out. I'm you asked me if that makes sense in capital games, or if you do an exchange, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1 — 26:23
Yeah, so there's a ways to defer your capital gains by doing what's called a 1031, exchange. Again, there's just other ways to avoid taxes. We could go deeper into that, but most likely, it's not a common scenario. But what it is is that if you find a like kind property in Tampa to another investment property. You could defer your capital gains into the next property so you just don't pay them when they're due. You could just keep on down the street, if you will.
Sydney Bocik — 26:58
Okay, so I would probably have to seriously consider selling it and then three years. Then, though, no,
Unknown Speaker — 27:05
it would say
Sydney Bocik — 27:07
something as something to be aware of. As I'm looking at pulling out this HELOC and then looking at moving out of the property, I should seriously consider selling it within three years or No, yeah, it's
Speaker 1 — 27:20
something that we definitely should consider in the two movie between year two and three. Absolutely. So again, let's go over the let's go over the example, you purchase the property for 190,000 Okay, let's say that you put in $50,000 over the life of the property. As far as air conditioning, Roof Installation, flooring, the improvements to the property. Let's call it once. Call it 60,000 make my numbers easy. 250 from from the time you bought it, to three years from now. So 29 years. Okay, so does that sound okay? An assumption that you could put 50, $60,000
Speaker 2 — 28:05
in this property over nine years. Yeah, would be $250,000
Speaker 1 — 28:12
okay, so say your home is worth 375 today, you sell it for $400,000 in three years. It's just around math. It just makes my numbers easy. Okay, so if you sell it for 400 minus sales commissions, because you didn't really sell it for let's just say that you let's make my math easy. Say you net. No, I want to do the numbers gross 400,000 you sell it. Let's say you have 5% selling closing costs. So that's 20,000 it's 383 80 minus 250. Is 130. Would be what your capital gains exposure would be in that example.
Unknown Speaker — 28:56
Okay, what does that mean
Unknown Speaker — 28:59
your long term capital gains right now, I think it's 15%
Sydney Bocik — 29:04
so you're saying I would only pay 15% of 131 30?
Speaker 1 — 29:11
Yeah, let me just see what the monitoring capital gains in this real quick gains. So 15% for your general ink tax bracket, so 15 times 130 Yeah, so it's about 18. That's about $18,000 taxes. But every month you're in this scenario, you're you're making over $1,000 to your balance sheet. 374, is your principal reduction plus the cash flow that's offsetting your rental income. So again. Know, if you're making $1,000 to your benefit, that's $12,000 a year, and you're okay with the property management and how it's working out and what have you. You're trying to save $18,000 in taxes on a forced sale, but you're killing the golden goose that pays you your balance sheet, $12,000 $12,000 that you build up a year, which is, let's assume 5% on 400,000 that example, what you make $20,000 so, again, it's part of the calculations that you should consider.
Sydney Bocik — 30:37
So unless I'm as long as I'm not going to sell it within within year four, and maybe keep it until year five or six, after I move out that it makes sense to do it and not sell it.
Speaker 1 — 30:54
It just depends how much a headache the the owning the property in Tampa is in year two, three, like, if it, if it, if it got you into Denver or France or somewhere, amazing, then it did great. If it's if it's working out, the property manager is working out. Hedged it with insurance. You is making you, how I look at it, it's making you about $1,000 a month cash flow and paying down your principal. Call it $800 a month. So that's call it $10,000 a year on your best sheet. And if your home's appreciated 5% of 375, that's making you another $18,000 on paper, on equity. So it's like, it's like 20, $30,000 to your benefit every year you keep the property. That's why we're doing this exercise. And every year is kind of growing compounded that. So it's actually going to blend out higher. So it's going to kind of blend out close to 30,000 so minus the headaches and trash and tenants and stuff like that. Let's say you net, net $25,000 a year the next three years, that's $75,000 that's going to benefit Bocik versus not having it. That's why you're doing this exercise. And you're like, Okay, that's cool. I can manage the drama. I can manage the couple months of cash flow because my line of credit is paying for it like it doesn't eat my lifestyle up. We made it self sufficient. Oh, now, like, every time hurricane season, I can't sleep, I can't, like, I can't, you know, they're doing a meth lab here. They're like, like, that stuff is it's like too much. Then when I say like the rental property has been good for you, you structured out in a way, why don't we just use that asset and roll it into something out of hurricane season or out of a met lab like then we can maybe look at other ways to roll that up.
Unknown Speaker — 32:58
What do you mean? Roll roll it up.
Speaker 1 — 33:02
That's what the 1031 is basically, you know, using one property, it's generally a smaller property to a bigger property, is how they use it. But basically it's just deferring the gains. Keep deferring the taxes. That's why people make a lot of money in real estate, because it's about tax efficiencies. It's very tax efficient. About ash and and, like, if you don't pay taxes on something forever because you that's, that's your estate's issue, then that's your state's issue. That's not your issue. So you can take the money out of the loans. That's like, real, like you could really go to Vegas with it. Like you go to Thailand with it. That's not taxable. So if you have an asset growing and you want to harvest that out, the loans are not taxable. That's where a lot of people in real estate have a very decent quality life because they don't pay taxes on London. This is what we would not do improvement. We would not have this conversation. But I'm having this conversation with you your math, as long as you can handle the property management and and the communication and that part of it, like it, you're making $1,000 a month, net, or On paper, and then potentially 15 to $20,000 on paper, on the home appreciation blended,
Speaker 1 — 34:33
right? So we can go over, okay, so in your balance sheet, balance sheet is basically just a ledger, a way to track how Sydney is winning for assets in liabilities. Well, you're winning. You're winning in lots of ways. And so what we're trying to do is like, can we have you travel the world, save the dolphins, work and party? And still have your assets, make money for you, and has done well for you, because you're willing to do things other people haven't, as far as quality of life. You had a great quality life. You got lucky, and sometimes a little roommate, sometimes you didn't, but you're willing to go through that drama where other people weren't, and it's paid for you, it's like some really well for you right now, here's the deal. Not Perlin, just the Sydney conversation. There are conspiracy people and other people thinking, 2026 we're going to have a hyperinflationary type of scenario where they're going to lower interest rates. They call it printing money. It only is good if you have assets. So so your your your news channel. So in this case, you be the one percenter that they hate versus the people that are that this is bad for you too, but they have an asset and the money gets cheaper and that your home is more attractive to purchase, then equity will basically be grown on paper and only matters if you sell or take money out, but it's better on your balance sheet, because the inflation actually will help you, because I sell on the asset. So if you sell, then double screws you, right? But if you have the asset and you play that inflation game, and you have an asset that grows with it, then sucks, but at least that sucks less for you, and then that's where you consider taking some money off the table by taking a new line of credit, new second mortgage, or sell the property
Sydney Bocik — 36:44
on top of the one I already have.
Speaker 1 — 36:47
Yeah, you can refinance the first or the second in the future as well.
Sydney Bocik — 36:50
So I would take out another line of credit on top of the
Speaker 1 — 36:54
not on top. You would replace it.
Unknown Speaker — 36:56
Oh, so like refinancing those?
Speaker 1 — 37:00
Okay? If, if you chose, let's say your home appreciated 400,000 then you would be 60 that scenario, and you could take another 3040, 50, $60,000 on restructuring, aligning credit in theory, and as a result, you know, go to go to France, whatever else you want to do. So like, it's not a one or done, you just restructure the debt. So the line of credits are 10 years. So let me go over the details again. The line of credits are generally advertised over 30 years, or interest only payments. So if the payments are interest only. All that means is that they're only going to take the interest that is due to the bank, and no additional money is going to your principal. The reason why you would do that for cash flow, okay, so you would do that not to get out of debt, but so you can afford the debt, but if you reinvest it in, then you have to look at it as a cost of your investment versus put into an index fund or something else. If you say, Hey, I could buy a 350 property versus a $300,000 property, because I want interest only and I will come from with cash flow, and you say, okay, great, now I'm earning Five 6% on the 350 in Denver or wherever else. And look at what that should build wealth for. That's the reason why you do it, is it's a tool, anti a lot of advice. But if you use it as a tool with an appreciable asset, then it's an important thing for cash flow. Let's go over the details on on the 10 year this why is the credit interest rates are adjustable. That means they can go up, they can go down. Next year, they probably will go stable to down, but they could go up. They have caps on their adjustment period. Mean they can't go from 5% 10% seven to nine, but there's an adjustment cap. So if you start at five,
Sydney Bocik — 39:12
but it can go down as much as it wants, right? There's no there's no cap on there's
Speaker 1 — 39:17
no cap on dental. That's right, no cap on down. Okay? I'm down, but no one's gonna ever argue that your payments are gonna go down. So it's always making all the safety conversations is that the race can adjust overnight dramatically and the lifetime it cannot adjust dramatically. That's important. The 10 year fixed period is the amount that you could draw off of it, take in, money in and out. We pay it back down. So it's another right? So if you want to use it as a financial tool, let's say that you have some cash. You want to pay down the balance. CEO, right? So you could, it's like a credit card in that sense. So if you come up with $100,000 $200,000 from Pearland we give you that, and you want to pay that off, then you could pay that off and have a zero payment because based on your balance, but you can only do that for 10 years. Yeah, 30 years from the time it starts here, another 20 years after that, to pay it off and then amortize 20 years from the 10 year anniversary. Tell you all the back stuff that your life would still be different in 10 years. But I want to make sure you understand the difference on the line in credit. There's some there's some variables, yeah,
Sydney Bocik — 40:46
okay, could I refinance that at any point then too, and extend the 10 years?
Speaker 1 — 40:54
And that's what I was trying to allude to. That in three to five years, when your home that has a different appreciation, you have more equity, and you may want the learning credit to extend it, change the terms, fix the fix the rate. So let's
Sydney Bocik — 41:08
say, but that would be a problem, because I'm not living in it anymore,
Speaker 1 — 41:13
based upon the availability, on what the money is out there. Again, the the market is, not, is not investor? The short answer is yes, that's the short
Sydney Bocik — 41:31
I would have to get a different kind of loan because I wouldn't be living in it anymore, and I couldn't refinance a HELOC on a property that's not owner occupied.
Speaker 1 — 41:41
So these are a lot of scenarios based upon market scenarios, and I would just, I would say that getting a line of credit of a decent loan to value. Loan to value is how much you owe and how much is worth, and a percentage a owner occupied property would allow you to have a higher loan to value than occupied property, and that there will be less options to get non owner occupied second mortgages when you leave. That's that's a that's today, perspective tomorrow. Perspective could be worse. Could be better. I don't know what the availability for loan products would be in the future. Generally, people get greedy in the market, and they will try to find money to make money. Else, you know, in the new products. So I would not count on it, but you could refinance it. You could refinance the first and the second collectively, right again, you have such a low interest rate, you may not want to do that, but let's say the interest rates in the future for a first mortgage for non owner occupied property is 5% okay? I said, Okay, this blend the average thing you told me about. I got three and a quarter over here. I got 8% over here. Cool. If I restructure it, it is a 5% so that's the same difference, right? My debt is still 5% blended. I get as 5% but I can take out cash, I can restructure it. I could do restructured terms. So makes sense. It's so mathematically okay. The problem is that you got such a sexy three and quarter percent that will create an emotional anchor that will potentially have to go through this exercise again and understanding what your real math is, because you're blending costs with the first and second. It's not three and a quarter. It'll be call it five, five and a quarter percent blended. But that's a that's a two to three year conversation. The conversation now is, let's make sure we can unlock the equity out of the property so Sydney could have the quality of life that she wants without being married to the Tampa
Sydney Bocik — 43:58
with the security of, okay, so after understanding of, like, I was property, and I want to move somewhere else, but I'm afraid of blah, blah, lots of things, and I'm afraid of a big, a big bill coming my way that I don't see outside of, like My fixed monthly cost. Then, based on all of that, the HELOC right now is the best scenario for me. Can I pay for the fees of the HELOC with the HELOC? So like I if the HELOC costs to $3,000 to open, when I open the HELOC, it will just automatically have a balance of $3,000 that I can start paying down.
Speaker 1 — 44:46
Yeah. So again, the net, yeah, the net. Net is yes, but there's a, there's a complexity with figure that if we remember correctly, they're going to they're going to you. To send you the full line of credit, I'm closing, yeah, and then you have to repay it back. It's a complexity. Ends up kicking the butt, because you're going to get per diem just means every day you have the money out, you get charged interest. That's what per diem means. So they're going to they're going to say, why are you one sport team, let's say and the cost, I'm sorry, they're going to worry you. Yeah, let's say that the approval of the line of credit is 117 let's say the cost is 3000 they're going to wire you're 114 okay, then what we need to do, you know, send right back to them as quickly as possible, which is probably going to take two to three days and how they adjust the interest. So add the 3000 just because how they're going to compensate themselves on this draw amount. Draw means how much money has been taken out. So draw, like drawing on water out of a bucket, whole person. Draw. Draw. So, but that's how we, that's how we that's how we call it draw. So they're going to give you a full disbursement of the net balance. You don't have to come out with any cash. They will take it out the balance of the line of credit, but they will give you the full draw at closing, and then it will be your responsibility to wire back to them, which they will give you wide instructions, which we already had that at the time when we got the initial documents, I'm going to say two days, three days is probably it will charge you three to four days for them to clear it and restructure, re, balance your line of credit. So if you're per diem, call it $10 a day, it'd be like $40 worth of interest. It's just annoying, but that's I want to make sure I'm disclosing that to you. Okay? And then in that example, that 14,000 minus the $40 like your balance would be like $3,040 that would be your balance. Call it four or five days after we close, when you net, net everything,
Sydney Bocik — 47:11
and then I would have, then they would tell me what those payments would be on it, what's my monthly payment? Until that goes down,
Speaker 1 — 47:18
your payment will be reassessed at a certain date, and then your payment would be based upon the current balance on a certain date, closing date. So that example, your your $3,040 would be kind of how they calculate the payment at 18% 50, 6070, bucks like that.
Sydney Bocik — 47:39
And I start have to pay that back immediately. Those payments the
Speaker 1 — 47:42
next month, the next month, you actually may slip up for settlement. So you may have to pay only 45 days. But what you could do, instead of, instead of having a 114 return back, you could do 130 and you use that $1,000 for all the payments for the statement is that, like, you can literally have the line of credit pay for the line of credit, like literally pay for the payments as well cash flow. So now we have two different scenarios,
Sydney Bocik — 48:14
and then I also just use the extra rental income and pay that down too.
Speaker 1 — 48:20
Yes, that would be your prerogative, or you can create cash savings. Yeah, and that obligation adjusts your cash flow for Tara because obligation on the property. What so like your mortgage, like your mortgage and your taxes and insurance, you put that in your obligation for your taxes, right? You put your how much you pay for interest. The 494 $95.51 and the 582 are actually obligations to the property to reducing your taxable event for the property. So your current 9000 change, if you add another $50 on that, that's will be included in that tax return, it's an interest cost that will reduce your cash flow. Okay? So hypothetically, let's say you have $500 free cash flow for your property a month, $6,000 a year, and you and let's say you're at a 20% 22% so it's like a $1,200 tax obligation that you increase you created for yourself. Congratulations. Then you could, let's say you had a debt. Don't want to do your don't want to do your EC, or don't want to use student loans. But let's say. Add another legitimate debt that you could use your money credit for, that you could reflect to the Tampa property to reduce your obligation. They can also your taxes on that we can worry about that later. So here's the deal. My first priority is to make sure you're safe. Your definition is safe, meaning you sleep at night. Second priority, well, actually, the first priority is to do what you want. And what I think what you want is to be able to do what you want, meaning have access to your money and go anywhere you want. That's my first priority. Second priority is to recover all your what if scenarios? How do we make you safe hurricanes and tenants and Property Management like the third is, can you sleep at night? It's like the cash flow. Do we play? Those are my priority. Staff. Tax decisions are the conversation, and then that's the strategy that's probably actually Lastly, all right, now we got everything stacked. We got access to the money. We got the insurances, we got the property managers. You got the property rented. We're cool. We got this number of dollars we're getting. This is not what we could afford today. So you got to get a raise over here so you can afford whatever the property we that's another variable for the Sydney conversation, right? Because, quite frankly, I'm thinking another 18 to $20,000 is what we should increase your obligation, your your income, right? So if that's the case, then maybe you're a little more comfortable on your cash flow for your property, right? And then once we do a little bit better, we will pre set up another $20 so what you could qualify for should be a lot different than what you qualify for today, right? So we get we settle Tampa, we get that structure, we give you as much flexibility, and then we move on to bigger, better things.
Sydney Bocik — 52:15
And how much of this conversation are you and Ken expecting the clarity engine to have in the beginning.
Speaker 1 — 52:24
Can't speak for Ken per se, but a lot of this conversation is I would expect us to be able to answer like you smiled when I said, Ask your tax professional, because you asked me a task question. It was in line with cash flow. Do this, this part, you put it in the context, but the question was actually a tax question, and so what I should do is say, Well, here's here's the definition of capital gains and like, here's the here's the IRS code. But you should ask the tax person, like, I should you got frustrated. I didn't ask. I didn't answer your question. I was trying to but you asked it in mental you already turned that page. You asked me a tax question in a per line. I should be able to decipher that say, okay, Sydney, this sounds like a tax question. Here's what the tax code looks like for that scenario, please to ask your tax professional if I should go answer it, reference it and give me my disclosure and say, Did I answer intelligent? Did I actually answer your question, or did I understand you correctly? Create that loop so we recycled a couple times, and you got frustrated with me late little bit because I didn't I didn't actually hear you. And that's what we should do with Perlin. Like we should have these answer the question as responsible as we can, make sure we do with the caveat and make sure we clarify. Did we actually answer Sydney's question, yeah, but I don't think anything was out of line in all our conversations today versus okay, I wouldn't. I probably want to go into the 1031 exchanges. I want to go into the deferment of taxes. That would be that would get us in March for the earth today? Personal? CFO, absolutely, I would also, obviously didn't talk about what we would done for your income moving forward purchasing to get you something right. I probably want to go into this. It would be interesting if I actually, I would like, So Sydney, you have, you have roommates before, and would you be interested in? You know, generally, if you have, you'd be comfortable with it if you have a two bedroom, even though it's more expensive, it may be equal or cheaper on your payments. If you're open to that, and you get a rental agreement, and I will go into the mortgage side of it. So if we do that, we would need to get a rental agreement sign and be willing to do it now you get on the property, and if we get this appropriate roommate ready to you can qualify for this. And do you want us to go over that? That would be, that would be, probably very helpful for the Sydney's in the world, what I would do there is like we did in the last conversation. I will be able to display what is required like by guidelines for what the rental agreement so you have, you're very clear. You need a rental agreement need to be fully executed. The person needs to provide you a chat that you could purchase like I would have to define what you need. I would want to give you an example you need to sign and making sure you understood it. That would be really helpful, yeah, but I think 85% of that should be okay,
Sydney Bocik — 55:58
because then this could also turn it into like a scenario.
Speaker 1 — 56:06
Well, that that is a scenario in purchases that on your departing residence, is what we call it legally, like you have a departing residence and you want to buy a property, but you haven't sold your current property. How do I buy another property? This is the Ben Sizemore scenario. Ben Sizemore has a family scenario.
Sydney Bocik — 56:25
In my scenario would have I, I would have kept it or refinance it.
Speaker 1 — 56:32
Maybe sometimes people want to buy a property and keep their property. Tampa, you do a lot of credit. You're refunding, you're restructuring the money you need to put a down payment for another property without selling the property. The way you have his intention is to keep the refinances, to unlock your ability to say yes to a purchase. And the intention there would be to selling to party residents. But we may not need. We may need to qualify the purchase as if you did not sell a property, right, so your intentions and what we qualify for. I may need to have that for a purchase. I might need to qualify the consumer to purchase the home without selling the property, or do something like what Ben Sydney did, and have a guarantee of a sell so that that the party residents obligations resolved. Those are all surreal. Now, will we do this in v1 or v2 I don't know, but yes, the refinance, the purpose is, one of the purposes is harvest equity in the harvest and equity, or cash out debt consolidation ring investment for reinvestment in the reinvestments can be stops, cash bonds, other real estate, second home or or rental property, right? There's a lot of variations into that, equitable divisions, divorce or other obligations that they're resolving. There's a lot or paid off of debt consolidation. So there's like, four different reasons, five different reasons for, you know, debt or for reinvestment. So we have to figure out this thread. It looks like you're glossing over,
Unknown Speaker — 58:35
but, yeah, no, that makes sense.
Sydney Bocik — 58:39
No, that makes sense. And then also, wait,
Unknown Speaker — 58:48
let me do it. Holy shit. Holy cow, Molly, like guacamole. Um,
Sydney Bocik — 59:09
um, did you see the video I sent you on Instagram the other day? Ever since our little conversation last week, I've been getting a lot of videos of like, the real cost of buying a home. Did you see the video I sent you? And it had like the water, the gas, the security cameras, which was really interesting, but then she had a whole unforeseen expenses, which I didn't even talk about those, but she in her scenario, which was really interesting. And I know this goes back to a purchase conversation which, but she was talking about like they found mold that, like was going to cost her $30,000 or something. Thing, but, like, my but it's but, like no one explained to her, like the that's something she should have been able to go back to her insurance because they missed it
Speaker 1 — 1:00:16
and her dishwasher went on. That should be in your home warranty. So, yes, there is, this is where you're opening a big can of worms, but potentially necessary to a point. But what I to point right? Because in v1 or v2 right, when we get to the personal CFO, we should have an insurance advisor. We should have we should have an insurance advisor, we should have a real estate advisor. We should have a mortgage advisor, we should have legal advisors. And as a result, we can now talk more comprehensively, like like in that example, in a purchased upon have a home warranty that's paid for at the time of clothes from the seller that would have taken care of the dishwasher. Okay, this is what. So this would be an example of the how do we make sure we covered that conversation point? Yeah, we should
Sydney Bocik — 1:01:17
definitely cover the ENO insurance to it the because the same thing happened to me when I was buying my house too. Like they missed something with the electrical and I had to actually go back to my inspector, and he was giving me a hard time about it, and he ended up, like, dropping off a check. He just paid for it out of his pocket. But, like, nobody told me that. Nobody told me what to do if, like, I get into the property and it's not what like, all of these you and I talk about this all the time, like, professionals consistently let me down, whether it happens with everyone. But like, what to do if your professional let you down, like, and didn't catch something? What are the protections around that? Because that's terrifying.
Unknown Speaker — 1:02:06
So I don't this is where refinances are easier.
Sydney Bocik — 1:02:11
So yes, I understand from a purchase perspective, like, what are, if anything unforeseen happens to me that's just like a little footnote. Like, if anything does happen, like you, your inspector has boba or giving the stickiness of being able to come back and say, like, why i Holy fuck. What do I do now? Like, I don't have $1,000 in cash that I can afford, and my electrical How do I know I should come back and I should be able to ask that question, if we don't have to answer it upfront with in the beginning, because there's a million other caveats, but like, how do we make sure I can that people know they can come back with those questions, not in a version one, but in a version 234, To understand that, like, you not only could help answer that question, but maybe help articulate what the problem is and figure out who to go back to. Like, I don't think this has to, like, solve, be able to solve every problem, but if it could help just point people in the right direction, then, like, that's a huge that,
Speaker 1 — 1:03:24
I think, on a checklist of things so like things to know what we could do in the v1 on a purchase v1 not a refines, right is scenarios like, the reason why people get home inspections is that you now have A professional licensed person reviewing the condition of your property, if scenarios like Plumbing, electric or something that's not bound, but should have you may have, you may have rights to have a conversations and get assurance to protect you, right, and this is why you get a license, certainly. So I think there's, there are things that we do as a framework to your point, in a professional scenario, is why we use professional realtors, sometimes we use licensed inspectors. Why is it important to go through these things so like knowledge base, right? So this is a scenario like, why we use licensed professionals, licensed appraisers, licensed inspectors, why you have, why is it required for carbon monoxide? You know, devices to be at home, like in California, it's legal, like we can buy a home without carbon monoxide devices in multiple stories, but we should be able to potentially have as a reference point. The problem is, is there's so much paperwork and so much knowledge that even if I give it to somebody, would they see it or even know where it is when they need it. So this is where. The moments that matter. Concept might be something that we could unlock, that if we create one Digital Highway home, and we have a point of search to settlement, and we have these moments, we can kind of create these timeouts and say, by the ways, like you didn't ask for it. But hey, people spend the video, this, this, this, and here's the resources, by the way you go. So you know, these are things that we should consider. I always like the video moments that matter. So there's a company called bomb bomb that made the they're so stupid, but people pay money to put a video of themselves to say, hey, Sydney, congratulations. Your approval. We're so excited for you. So if you have any questions, give me a call and they actually do this live video. Can it and then they send it. But we should be able to do this with our digital twins, or digital scenarios that we have, like eight major moments, send that out, but we can do this on educational process, not just transactional like, let's get this emotionally ready to do something.
Sydney Bocik — 1:06:09
So I think we just have to be careful about the educational part, though, because like people, people's definition of what they want out of educational content has changed again.
Speaker 1 — 1:06:22
There's you are opening up a lot of really good things to do and really dangerous things to do from our perspective and our role in our conversation. So we just have to figure around compliantly, and then interviews with our professionals and customers, what is our priority stack and potentially just create a digital door for those that want to walk that through. But that is not required, that we can then just, you know, layer that on. Yeah.
Sydney Bocik — 1:06:50
I'm not saying we have to. I'm not saying we have to solve the like, what if this turns into a bad investment, but if we're not, like, at least thinking about that in the beginning, I got very lucky in a lot of ways. I had a lot of people that told me a lot of things I should do, like I shouldn't. I would have never known about the I only knew about the ENO because from the appraisals and the policies they carry, and and then I confirmed with my realtor at the time that like that so like, but I don't know there's so many, I can't tell you how many videos I've come across, not only just like hers, but like other people that have been, like, I bought a house and then, like, there was Like $50,000 in unseen like, bullshit that happened that like, bankrupted me. Like, I come across these videos all the time, and especially when I first bought my house, like, there's so many you might be able to get them in, but like, how do you, how do you make sure you protect them around, staying in, and maybe it's not a gen one, but all the time, all the time, and all the times they don't know where they can go, because, like, okay, they just got, they just funded this loan. But it's like, does the lender care? It's like, this bad thing happened. No. So, like, where do they really go? Yeah.
Speaker 1 — 1:08:21
So here, I don't disagree. I would just say that we need to, because
Sydney Bocik — 1:08:27
this is we even had the conversation from, like, a Remora perspective, like you, a lot of people can get people places, but like, how do they make sure, like, you comfortably stay in that place? Is it if that's not something, that's not something really, they
Unknown Speaker — 1:08:43
need a Sherpa. They
Sydney Bocik — 1:08:44
need fucking Sherpa. But, like, that's not something anybody really does. So if that's the stickiness that it creates, even in the beginning, I think that could be like, because at that point it's just informational, like, if that's a low cost way to, like, keep people engaged to the point where, like, by the time the purchase is built out, or the next, the next, and then the always being approved, then like that is, I
Speaker 1 — 1:09:13
actually love your the takeaway so far, the rumors, you know, So you get the checklist, the but then the Sherpa, right? Because a lot of people, they got lucky, you know, they had that they have, the guy that this and that, but you could the checklist is pretty, pretty interesting, because you can have your checklist, and you have a community checklist, and the community checklist can be, you know, grow in a way, but then having community events parties to create it was interesting from the Russian perspective. She didn't want to deal with Russians and France, because she left Russia and done it. And so there's that I'm going to make it process. But when she looked back, how much easier. Of the within humble herself a little bit for the transition, because there's a cultural awareness and how to translate. They do this versus this. We do this right? And then to the person that had a person to literally walk the apartment and the application, and I think that was the third Romer, right? The Sherpa. And so
Sydney Bocik — 1:10:25
the girl that moved from Russia to France, she gave me the Russian notion. She said it to me, it's all in rush, it's all in Russia. And she's like, I don't think you're gonna be able to read it, but notion, like, translated everything automatically, which is super cool. But it has everything in there. You get here's, here's where you can get pet insurance. Here's the best vets in the area that also speak English, not just the best vets, but the ones that you can actually communicate with, where to open the bank where to open your bank account, where to open like it was, like, everything that helps you stay not not just gets you there,
Speaker 1 — 1:11:03
and that's a digital product you could sell, and then you get have,
Sydney Bocik — 1:11:07
but not from a roller perspective. I'm talking about from like, a Perlin perspective too. Like everybody just helps you get somewhere, but like nobody, there's so many people that, like, need help stay maybe that's not a Perlin paradigm, but it is something I think that's worth thinking about, maybe because a lot of the times, like, I don't even think people know when they could go back to their realtor, or when they should or shouldn't, when they should go back to their lender, when they could come back to purlin. Like, what Where is maybe, I think identifying those scenarios and like, where people would want, want help after and then deciding, like, are we going to help with this? Yes or No. If not, then we should at least just give information on it, or like, what this is something we don't help with. But in this scenario, people do X, Y and Z so that we could cover it, and people still feel like they can come back at any point, but like, we don't have to solve it. I think at least just pointing people in the right direction, like, could be a huge weight off our shoulders from a purlin perspective, but still create the stickiness of like, okay, you might not be able to solve everything, but if you can help solve every like one out of 10 things, then I will keep coming back and I will keep asking these questions.
Speaker 1 — 1:12:29
Yeah, so that's interesting, because it's, it's, I could see clear pathways for Remora a lot. So like the checklist, you could do your product for monetization? The community I was going to give you my schools log in so you can go to community off of that. Are you familiar with schools?
Sydney Bocik — 1:12:55
So it's like a community portal where you can build courses.
Speaker 1 — 1:12:58
And so I have it, I don't use it, so I have locked it in a cheap price. So let me know if you want that. So that could start the conversations, easy, calendars, documents, videos, tutorials, like, right, easy. But then the Sherpa, what I was thinking there is,
Unknown Speaker — 1:13:21
call it like,
Speaker 1 — 1:13:24
I'm going to generalize this because we, I think, targeted what women generally trust other women. We says like, not all men, but always a man. Concept that, if you and I'm going to use simply just came off to me, I didn't think about how you will respond, but stay home moms, right, that are local, that have the language scenarios from right? So meaning, there's a lot of professional, smart women that chose to potentially minimize careers, access, but if they were on a Sherpa guide, scenarios where they're assigned people to be available certain times of calls to answer as a guide, that seems like a really easy, nice match localization, kind of like Airbnb host, yeah? So like, host, yeah. So you started getting into that scenarios, building little communities. Have the host be in the communities, right? Understand them from a vetting process. If there's a matching system, kind of like, was matching with
Sydney Bocik — 1:14:36
the girls, I don't have to know everything about every place. I just have where the people are, like, from a Tampa perspective, like, I, there's nuances of like, living five minutes away that actually change your whole living experience. Like, there's I, one of the roamers was like, Oh well, my friend, my friend that lived there told me to live in. This specific area, but it actually wasn't that different from like, 10 minutes down the road, and I could have saved like, $1,000 a month, like, which is crazy.
Speaker 1 — 1:15:10
So if you get the host in the communities, then you can like profiles, almost like a matching system, right? So it'd be interesting. But the major things that I heard you have a kind of a checklist, a reference point. You have human size in the community of things that are beyond the nuances of the to do's. And then you could effectively get matched. And then you can create your matching systems on your hosting. So it goes from different premium, premium digital to build a community, to then come out into digital hosting that gives you the jumping point, and you can all manage it with the paperwork and information on your platform. So I've learned a lot of four interviews, or three interviews anyway.
Sydney Bocik — 1:16:01
Learned a lot from what the interview you and I's interview us. No your Roma articles,
Speaker 1 — 1:16:09
but on the need list, all the three needs are, I think, effectively universal, right, a notional list of things to do, where to go, how to do it, right? The community access points, and then you can use your host to build out active communities, right? So you use your host into the communities, create events, and then you create some virality, and on that to the gram and video, and then on the notions, yeah, it really and there's different monetization pockets in there, both on hosting people that they actually come in after certain years, and they had a great experience. They've learned they can become hosts, so you can create the morality of that just distributing people from ambassadors. So, anyways,
Sydney Bocik — 1:16:57
but, but that's, that's my that's kind of like, I don't think Ken would necessarily be interested in that. In for his scenario, like, how do you keep people coming back, especially from a refinance perspective, like, they're already in their home. They already know. They already know
Speaker 1 — 1:17:15
being approved would be the extension there, right?
Sydney Bocik — 1:17:20
What all the scenarios that they might need to, like, pick up the phone and call somebody like, maybe they they have a lot of equity that they have to do something with, like refinance. They want to they have, they want to buy a new home. They want to move. They want to whatever. But like, the scenarios of, like, a pipe burst a week into me buying this property, what the fuck do I do, especially for a first time home buyer?
Unknown Speaker — 1:17:46
So what I think there are
Sydney Bocik — 1:17:49
like, Oh, my God, I just used 100% of everything in my pocket to afford this home, and I have nothing else.
Speaker 1 — 1:17:56
Like, well, that's an opportunity, and we can come into charging the real estate agent, a call it a concept of transaction coordinator, but effectively a post close, visor, right? And then from there, we can extend that question bank of being advised for insurance, utility transfers, you know who you call, what your problems? It's a problem. First call as a concierge from the agent, which we could probably charge on every closing, as a facilitation, call it a 90 day, and then we could do a checkup, right? So again, purchase loan. People should do a 60 day follow up, right? So we should just effectively facilitate, I said, effectively facility all. I will get new words eventually, but, but that is something that I think it makes sense, and we can actually monetize it, if on the purchase world to create, call it a post close advisor, and we would just need to map that out, like, here's the first things you need in 30 days. Here's your utility transfers. There's companies that do that. We can have an API to do all the transfer process, which we could get paid for, basically click fee for insurance, and then the second level is the what if problem scenarios that those services don't have. We can build out a agent for that, and we could effectively monetize that. Call it a $50 advisor, you know, roll out to answer questions. And then we could expand that. I think that's actually good, and we can do well at the same time. So let's, let's, let's circle back on that. Okay. Okay, are you tired of me yet? We've talked for a long time. No.
Sydney Bocik — 1:19:59
Full. Think, because you're saying, I think like purchase is harder, but like you're saying, like purchase is harder from a scenario perspective, but the like, what could like the purchase was like, in terms of from an end user perspective, actually more straightforward, because it's not like, well, I want to buy this house. I want to buy a house, but like, in the refinance conversation, for me, it's like, That was harder from my me perspective, because, like, I don't, I don't know, and like, it's like a, what could I do with the money? Or what should I do with the money? That's like a harder pill for me to swallow. From like, a from, like a financing perspective, but like a what to finance. Div is harder for me, for
Speaker 1 — 1:20:54
whatever that's worth. Well, Ken wants, like so if you said I want to take out $15
Speaker 1 — 1:21:12
and what, so what, but I didn't ask that question. Then what can we say? Okay, great. Well, and then he would have done math and taken a lump sum to pay that off. That would actually save you 1000s of dollars in interest. And it would be like we would just change the conversation from saving money as a rating term to because you were saving money so you just wanted to do better, because you were told to do better. So I wasn't gonna bust, bust your head and like, what are your real what your real goals were? But like, Ken really thinks is oftentimes that Sydney says, All right, I need I want to save I want to refinance my mortgage. So let's say that you had this mortgage here, and you can refinance a new 30 years, and your payments saves you, like, $400 a month. And you would do that to reset your amortization and pay off the debt because you wanted to pay off your your debt for your friend that you co signed. Like, then was it okay, this $400 that we could save you? Well, if we just got you $50,000 as a second, we pay off all the debt, your payment would be $250 a month. But yet, you save 115 years on your existing mortgage and
Unknown Speaker — 1:22:41
faster, like he
Speaker 1 — 1:22:42
wants to change the conversation with the why, to understand, understand the purpose better. So those are conversations we're going to have to do this exercise a lot. But does that make sense? Yeah, and do it in a way where we don't piss you off, because Sydney wants what Sydney wants. I know you well enough, but you want what you want or how you want it, and so just answer the question how I asked you,
Sydney Bocik — 1:23:12
but I don't think that's going to be just a me paradigm. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 — 1:23:15
No, no, the trick is to get to what you
Sydney Bocik — 1:23:21
so why conversation again, in the paradigm of like, what Ken expects?
Speaker 1 — 1:23:27
No, you're I, we, I understand your conversation. We got to you want to do things smart. You want to be able to afford to buy cash flow. You want to move. But you've told me, and you know that people told you not to sell the home in Tampa, because that's mathematically. People tell you, you make $20,000 a year, $30,000 a year, so don't sell your damn property. So if I don't want to do it, you don't want to make a mistake. So I understand your schema, but what I'm trying to do is make sure we go over the what if scenarios. Make sure you understand when you end the day, this is what is all going to settle out to the dust, and you're going to be happy with it. Or happy is not the great word. You're going to know exactly what it is, and that will be happy for you. You don't want surprises, you don't want fluff, and you don't want to make a mistake. And that's effectively how I address our conversation where and it's like people don't know what they really know their options are, and they don't know there's a better way. Those are the two keys in the clinician for refinances, mostly like equity harvesting, or if they're saving money, what's the money savings for you just want to sit for cash flow. It was a it was an emotional scenario to be safe you're not reapplying. The $200 you just your taxes and insurance are going up. Is pissing you? Off. Payment is supposed to be fixed. You did the right thing. Fuck it like, that's how I felt. Like, suffice. Just gave you $200 savings your cash flow. We did good, yeah. Well, that's another thing, fixed versus variable, where you're at at what what is fixed? Everybody's like,
Sydney Bocik — 1:25:23
it's funny. It's so funny because everybody in mortgage is so concerned about, like, educating the fucking borrowers, but, like, nobody educates them on the things that actually fucking matter at all. And it's annoying. It's annoying, like, I the things that matter are the things that change their scenarios, and nobody does it for that.
Speaker 1 — 1:25:56
I don't disagree, and I understand, and I think we could do better, and think we will do better. I also just think that we have to figure out what we can do within the scope of what we can do, meaning everything that could go wrong in life that deals with the housing we cannot touch. We can't touch it.
Sydney Bocik — 1:26:17
We can't solve everything for it. But like, at least throwing up, like, the caveats of like, we don't have to be we don't have to, like, tell them everything and solve everything or get in the way of everything. But like, the major heartburn or the major surprises that happen for the majority people speak to those things. So they're
Speaker 1 — 1:26:45
one thing as it relates to affordability, cost. Yeah, right, so the mold thing, I think in the purchase checklist, we should explain why a licensed surveyor is important to you know, to protect you and go talk to your realtor like we should have a framework of say you should talk to this person at this time.
Sydney Bocik — 1:27:09
If this happens, then talk to this person.
Speaker 1 — 1:27:11
These are known issues, right? So that that, I think it's a fair 80% rule, right? I want, but I want patients. We need to we, at least for v1 or v2 that we need to fit into our affordability box,
Sydney Bocik — 1:27:26
Understood, understood, but suddenly, if something happens and it's no longer for the buyer, this is what I'm saying. Like that is a part of the affordability box, because something bad happened that I didn't know about, that I didn't even think could fucking happen, and now it's no longer affordable, and that's a fucking problem. And now I just had a bad experience with you, with Perlin, with my lender, with everybody that I spoke to, because now I'm stuck in something that I can't afford. Everybody's at fault this thing.
Unknown Speaker — 1:28:00
It's right or wrong.
Sydney Bocik — 1:28:03
It won't be purlins fault. It won't be anybody's fault. If I just knew that, if I just knew where to go when, and if I felt like somebody gave a shit, sure, but the lender doesn't care. The realtor doesn't care. Nobody fucking cares. Like, who's who's next to I go, choke. Do you see what I'm saying? Because that wasn't my fault. Everybody told me I was good with this property, and now I owe $30,000 on something stupid after an inspection. Who do I go yell at? Do you see what I'm saying? And if I'm mad at everybody. You see what I'm saying? It is affordability. That is an affordability problem, because now I can no longer afford the fucking house.
Unknown Speaker — 1:28:53
So I would I
Sydney Bocik — 1:28:57
know what you're from your little mortgage box. I understand why you're saying it's not a fucking mortgage problem, but I don't care you need. This is what I'm saying, like, the difference between a mortgage payment and, like, a full payment is not different to a borrower. This is what I'm saying, like, the mortgage people are selling about, like, they want to, like, remove themselves of all responsibility, and that puts the borrowers at risk. You see what I'm saying.
Unknown Speaker — 1:29:28
They understand what you say. Why are you laughing?
Sydney Bocik — 1:29:31
Your little mortgage box is saying, No, this is not a mortgage problem, Sydney, but it is. It is to the borrower.
Speaker 1 — 1:29:38
Sydney, let me ask you if I, if you, if you knew that scenario would come up or could come up, would you've bought this home?
Sydney Bocik — 1:29:51
I would ask, Who do I yell at walking into this home? So I protect myself, if I would, if. It's not about whether I would would have bought.